Curse

MegaVolti · Dec 10, 2008, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Trying to interrupt 0.5s spells will result in wasted interrupts most of the time. Yes, you will sometimes hit it. But rarely ever. Do you really think anybody believes that you got some magic wand that makes all your arrows hit instantly? It's simply not possible. Enemies wand, enemies use different spells. Arrors need time to fly, there is lag. Try to be realistic.

Almost all skills you listed there are 0.5s or faster (and other lines, like meteor shower, really don't need the +20s from D-Shot since a mob won't live through the cooldown anyway).

So you basically confirm what has been said: D-Shot is bad in HM because all skills that would be worth D-Shotting can't be D-Shotted in a reliable way because they cast too fast.

Thank you!

The Meth · Dec 10, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

No no, he is obviously a super ranger with precognitive ability. Since the only way you can interrupt a few of those skills is if you use your interrupt before the enemy starts casting.

grim lavamancer joe · Dec 10, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Trying to interrupt 0.5s spells will result in wasted interrupts most of the time. Yes, you will sometimes hit it. But rarely ever. Do you really think anybody believes that you got some magic wand that makes all your arrows hit instantly? It's simply not possible. Enemies wand, enemies use different spells. Arrors need time to fly, there is lag. Try to be realistic.

It is called learning how to anticipate and developing good reaction times to non-spell casting hints. i play with a 200 ms ping on average so it comes in handy.

Quote:

Almost all skills you listed there are 0.5s or faster (and other lines, like meteor shower, really don't need the +20s from D-Shot since a mob won't live through the cooldown anyway).

So you basically confirm what has been said: D-Shot is bad in HM because all skills that would be worth D-Shotting can't be D-Shotted in a reliable way because they cast too fast.

the same can be said for all interupts, and your running a ranger why? it isn't like they can afford to spam damage skills like an elementalist can.

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No no, he is obviously a super ranger with precognitive ability. Since the only way you can interrupt a few of those skills is if you use your interrupt before the enemy starts casting.

i already said it once. its called QUARTER BREAKING. when you play pvp you start to develop the ability and it transfers over to pve nicely where you need to predict to interupt. If you see an enemy monk stop moving you dont think, you fire an interupt, even if you dont interupt something your going to be damn close to having interupted it.

btw. resorting to ad hominem arguements is a tactic avoided by any skilled debator. I would recommend that you avoid it in the future

Tyla · Dec 10, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

I find it funny you're saying "learn to interrupt" and then saying "because henchmen will run from it, right?". Flagging exists. It's correct to say that enemies in PvE heal quite... randomly.

Also, if you're using quarter-second based tactics through knockdowns, has it ever occured to you that keeping them on the ground is better than firing a D-Shot at them?

Targren · Dec 10, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I suppose you don't even bother with armour? You shouldn't need it unless you suck at the game :P

Maybe you just suck at posting?

Meth does have a point wrt the frostbound, though. While I agree with Upier's stance on D-shot in PvE, to a point, his "Optimal" armor argument has the shortcoming of not taking into account the cost and storage of armor sets/perf salvage kits, runes, and insignias, especially when ranger armor already has the intrinsic +30 armor vs. ele...

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DShot is excellent for skill spammers. Even dazed, in HM these mobs will get their RoF/WoH etc out. When you have a group with two of these healer spammers DShot is really what you need.

Or do you prefer to wait until they rn out of energy?

How does Dshot help in the former case(Dazed HM mob? If he's already dazed, you don't need Dshot. LR + Autoattack will do the same job...

In my experience, in the latter case (two healspam bots) do cause a problem, but if you can shut one of them down, the other can't keep up with a decent damage output and in that case my experience shows that Daze is more reliable. BHA, call the target, and drop him under a mountain of beaty hurty pain while his partner cries himself to sleep unable to keep up. Repeat on second healer.

The Meth · Dec 10, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by grim lavamancer joe

the same can be said for all interupts, and your running a ranger why? it isn't like they can afford to spam damage skills like an elementalist can.

Until you add on some of the 100 different ways to buff attack damage, then my ranger is doing up to 60-80 damage per hit with volley or barrage, AND a rit is casting splinter weapon on me to rape everything else nearby. No caster can hold a candle to any buffed physicals, even rangers, in terms of pure damage (excluding CoP).

Quote:

Originally Posted by grim lavamancer joe

i already said it once. its called QUARTER BREAKING. when you play pvp you start to develop the ability and it transfers over to pve nicely where you need to predict to interupt. If you see an enemy monk stop moving you dont think, you fire an interupt

Wait, enemies in PvE kite? What game are you playing? Players who stop moving in PvP before they cast spells are dumb anyways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grim lavamancer joe

even if you dont interupt something your going to be damn close to having interupted it.

From what I know during my time as a ranger being close to interrupting it doesn't count. Someone should double check for me though. Not to mention you have no idea what you are actually interrupting, again I laugh when you use Dshot against wand attacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grim lavamancer joe

btw. resorting to ad hominem arguements is a tactic avoided by any skilled debator. I would recommend that you avoid it in the future

Maybe someone should inform you as to what an ad hominem is. It means to ignore someone's argument and just attack the person. If I had said "no lol you are wrong because you are gay and retarded" that would be a case of an ad hominem. My statement simply said that if you were somehow able to interrupt .5s skills consistently you would be the best ranger in the game. That is not a case of an ad hominem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Also, if you're using quarter-second based tactics through knockdowns, has it ever occured to you that keeping them on the ground is better than firing a D-Shot at them?

No wai!

Damian979 · Dec 10, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

I don't care what the skill is, even if you are some godly ranger that will hit the exact skill you want 100% of the time, focusing on a single target interupt for pve is fail unless you are facing a mob of one. (most areas where interupts are key will have more than one monk, ele, etc. per mob

)

If you are taking interupts over damage then BHA+epidemic or hell even practiced stance+choking gas+never rampage alone will get you more of that yummy interupt sound effect then d-shot and s-shot put together.

Orange Milk · Dec 10, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Monks in HM kite Meth, you must only play NM.

You obviously do not know what Quarter Breaking/Quarter Knocking is.

You can't cast while moving, I'm going to assume you know this, so as a Monk runs and activates a spell/skill it must first stop prior to begining the cast. AS SOON as that Monk stops you fire that DShot you will more than likley interupt the spell cast.

It doesnt matter if you don't know what your interupting, the fact is if the Monk is casting something he's doing it for a reason and you have just impeaded his action. Although I will addmit that there have been times when I've twiched at a stance being activated.

Monks don't typically kite around then stop to wand, so no worries of you "loling" at wand attacks.

I tried to be done with this thread, but I can't seem to avoid replying to your stupidity.

Amy Awien · Dec 10, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Maybe someone should inform you as to what an ad hominem is. It means to ignore someone's argument and just attack the person.

Which is exactly what you did.

grim lavamancer joe · Dec 10, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Wait, enemies in PvE kite? What game are you playing? Players who stop moving in PvP before they cast spells are dumb anyways.

I don't know what game your playing, but monsters kite in HM. and players MUST stop to cast (lol at even having to mention that)

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From what I know during my time as a ranger being close to interrupting it doesn't count. Someone should double check for me though. Not to mention you have no idea what you are actually interrupting, again I laugh when you use Dshot against wand attacks.

everything is worth interupting. if you hesitate to try and figure out what it is your not going to interupt it.

Quote:

Maybe someone should inform you as to what an ad hominem is. It means to ignore someone's argument and just attack the person. If I had said "no lol you are wrong because you are gay and retarded" that would be a case of an ad hominem. My statement simply said that if you were somehow able to interrupt .5s skills consistently you would be the best ranger in the game. That is not a case of an ad hominem.

sarcasm is also an ad hominem arguement, and since it was directed at me it is most certainly ad hominem.

MegaVolti · Dec 10, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by grim lavamancer joe

It is called learning how to anticipate and developing good reaction times to non-spell casting hints. i play with a 200 ms ping on average so it comes in handy.

the same can be said for all interupts, and your running a ranger why? it isn't like they can afford to spam damage skills like an elementalist can.

Anticipate the random stuff monsters in PvE do. Yea right

You do know that they like to kite and wand and all that? So if you start your D-Shot right after their last spell you might get the next one, but you might as well just interrupt them while wanding. Certainly not reliable.

Elementalists as damage dealing spell spammers? lol ... that puts your wild claims about D-Shot into perspective.

upier · Dec 10, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

You can't cast while moving, I'm going to assume you know this, so as a Monk runs and activates a spell/skill it must first stop prior to begining the cast. AS SOON as that Monk stops you fire that DShot you will more than likley interupt the spell cast.

It doesnt matter if you don't know what your interupting, the fact is if the Monk is casting something he's doing it for a reason and you have just impeaded his action.

The same thing can be done with S-Shot.
The difference is that you'll be able to use S-Shot twice as often, which makes errors less grave. And if you succeed - in your average PvE, S-Shot's reward will be greater.
What you are arguing is that interrupts can be used more efficiently.
Interrupts, NOT D-Shot alone.
Yet, as mentioned - keeping someone plastered to the floor is more efficient then the most efficient use of an active interrupt.

So to summarize - D-Shot is comparable to other ranger options and at the same time those options are inferior to the best options overall and that makes it godly?

The Meth · Dec 10, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Monks in HM kite Meth, you must only play NM.

Most of the time I'm playing its in Hard Mode. Been vanquishing 1 or 2 luxon/kurzick areas per day to get faction, haven't had casters kite on me. Maybe I am just good and kill them instead of pew pewing away at them like an insect?

Quote:

You obviously do not know what Quarter Breaking/Quarter Knocking is.

You can't cast while moving, I'm going to assume you know this, so as a Monk runs and activates a spell/skill it must first stop prior to begining the cast. AS SOON as that Monk stops you fire that DShot you will more than likley interupt the spell cast.

Regarding players stopping to cast: stupid players stop BEFORE they cast. Smart players stop at the same time they start casting, and will do the same thing but not cast at all to fake your interrupts. This is irrelevant since we are talking about PvE, but lets put it straight. If you are playing against someone against whom such prediction works more then a few times you are playing against someone who is dumb. Of course, that applies to most of the players you will meet, so no worries.

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everything is worth interupting. if you hesitate to try and figure out what it is your not going to interupt it.

lol, no. 95% of skills monsters are using in PvE you won't benefit from interrupting. At the same time, 95% of the skills you can interrupt would be better off hit with Savage Shot.

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Monks don't typically kite around then stop to wand, so no worries of you "loling" at wand attacks.

I agree, monks in PvE don't kite much if at all. Wanding however is the favourite pastime of HM casters. Maybe its just because I kill targets quickly and don't give them anything to heal? And/Or maybe because the monks are one of the first to die anyway? That is what you should be doing if you have any idea how to play PvE

Quote:

Originally Posted by grim lavamancer joe

sarcasm is also an ad hominem arguement, and since it was directed at me it is most certainly ad hominem.

For an argument to be an ad hominem is has to be pointing out an irrelevant fact about someone in an attempt to make an arguement. My point about someone being the best ranger in the game if they could interrupt .5s cast skills consistently was entirely relevant to the discussion. Making observations that someone's argument, if true, would thereby lead to an impossible conclusions isn't an ad hominem, its a proof by contradiction. The presentation itself of the argument is quite irrelevant to this. QQ less.

grim lavamancer joe · Dec 10, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

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lol, no. 95% of skills monsters are using in PvE you won't benefit from interrupting.

then why are you arguing about ranger interupts?

(dont have time to debate right now, very busy)

Amy Awien · Dec 10, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Your sarcasm was a personal attack, Meth, and now you don't have the stomach to admit it.

FlamingMetroid · Dec 10, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

so guys whats going on in this thread?

grim lavamancer joe · Dec 10, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

debating is devolving into arguements and personal attacks like it always does >.>

the general arguing point has moved into wether or not d-shot can reliably interupt, which is a flawed arguement.

anyways. I would just like to mention this little thought that popped into my head, when spamming 2-3 attack skills a rangers energy drops to the point where savage shot can no longer be used on recharge, negating the recharge bonus that it has over distracting shot. (once again too busy to further develop the point

Fay Vert · Dec 10, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

How does Dshot help in the former case(Dazed HM mob? If he's already dazed, you don't need Dshot. LR + Autoattack will do the same job...

I was generous and let this go when The Meth said the same (I got bored rattling the retard's cage), despite his anal "English" attitute, he, like you, completely failed to understand the meaning of the full stop in the English language. I guess if you are American you can't help it.

upier · Dec 11, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by grim lavamancer joe

anyways. I would just like to mention this little thought that popped into my head, when spamming 2-3 attack skills a rangers energy drops to the point where savage shot can no longer be used on recharge, negating the recharge bonus that it has over distracting shot. (once again too busy to further develop the point

You can always switch to a +5 energy bow.
Or a zealous bow.
Energy is going to be much easier to modify then the recharge time.

Targren · Dec 11, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I was generous and let this go when The Meth said the same (I got bored rattling the retard's cage), despite his anal "English" attitute, he, like you, completely failed to understand the meaning of the full stop in the English language. I guess if you are American you can't help it.

Actually, Haughty McLoudmouth, the issue is not with the full stop, but with ambiguity on the term "mob." Let's look at what you actually said:

Quote:

Even dazed, in HM these mobs will get their RoF/WoH etc out.

If you mean it in terms of multiple enemies, that's one thing, and you can say so without acting like a self-righteous tool. If you mean it in the old-school context of "a singular baddie" (from MUD-term, a MOBile unit), then you have yet to actually answer the question instead of flamebaiting. Why would you need Dshot if the target is already dazed, unless your group has insufficient attack? It would be a waste, since the hit from Dshot will trigger the daze interrupt, the dshot will not, and thus the disabling will not happen.

So answer the question or stuff it, but you've got no intellectual high-ground here.